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Poster: bonk Date: Nov 4, 2005 5:42am
Forum: etree Subject: Rardog 11-01-05 HOB CLEVELAND


show rocked!
Anybody else agree?

This post was modified by bonk on 2005-11-04 13:42:53

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffskb archives Date: Nov 4, 2005 10:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rardog 11-01-05 HOB CLEVELAND

Not trying to sound rude, but if you want a copy of the Ratdog shows right away, why don't you buy the CDs they sell after the shows?

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Poster: dire--wolf Date: Nov 5, 2005 1:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rardog 11-01-05 HOB CLEVELAND

we all know that you can buy the recordings after the show, Bonk was only reaching out because we are all fans...nothing wrong with friendly enthusiasm.

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Poster: bonk Date: Nov 6, 2005 9:55pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rardog 11-01-05 HOB CLEVELAND

THANKS DIRE WOLF...THATS ALL I WAS DOING WAS JUST SPREADING THE LOVE....THATS ALL!

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Poster: 3roin stones Date: Nov 6, 2005 11:15pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rardog 11-01-05 HOB CLEVELAND

I've seen alot of offensive, greedy gotta-have-it-nows and I certainly agree that Bonks post was nothing more than just appreciation for an artist thst is in the archive-my 2 cents-peace.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 7, 2005 4:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon and other ISOs

So 3S, what's your opinion on handling ISOs of whatever type here? Given your using words offensive/greedy, I guess you wouldn't mind some deletions?

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Poster: 3roin stones Date: Nov 7, 2005 6:07am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon and other ISOs

I would have to agree that deleting those ISO's that are less than 3-4 weeks after the show in question would be a good idea I would think that given the tremendous volume of uploading that goes on at this site,and the relative speed at which they occur. users should simply wait for the show to appear. It's a relatively simple concept I would think.
Having said that I in no way was referring to Bonk as one of the offensive/greedy sorts-I've read too many of his post's to think otherwise. But we all know the type who seem almost angry at the taper because the show is'nt up Two days after. Man, I love these folks.
Peace to all.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 7, 2005 10:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon and other ISOs

Thanks for the feedback- so looks like there's not objection to ISO deletions so far, and so I just deleted a fresh post looking for a show from last week...

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Poster: JamminJerome Date: Nov 8, 2005 2:40am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon and other ISOs

Thanks, Diana! Those too-soon ISOs were starting to get annoying. I think you could even delete ISOs for shows that are up to two months old, but that's just my two cents.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 8, 2005 3:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon and other ISOs

I like that idea, thanks! Any objection to that, folks?

BTW If there's more ISO deletion going on, I expect we can make an extra little FAQ question about it as a heads up.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 16, 2005 1:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon and other ISOs

Related FAQ is here: http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#226

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Poster: bonk Date: Nov 8, 2005 12:44am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon and other ISOs

Thanks bro!

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Poster: bonk Date: Nov 6, 2005 11:24pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rardog 11-01-05 HOB CLEVELAND

right on!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffskb archives Date: Nov 5, 2005 2:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rardog 11-01-05 HOB CLEVELAND

I understand that. I just think that things like the internet have ruined trading and people expext to have shows the next day. It doesn't always work that way. cm

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Poster: dire--wolf Date: Nov 5, 2005 3:34am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rardog 11-01-05 HOB CLEVELAND

trading now seems to be a fallen hero. i don't dl enough off the net, i'm taking my time. before i found lma i was looking into purchasing hardware and software to digitize my analogs. anyhow...peace.

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Poster: bonk Date: Nov 6, 2005 9:58pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rardog 11-01-05 HOB CLEVELAND

SKB ARCHIVES>>>
I was not expecting anything the next day.i have been collecting for 30 years man.I was just INQURING!!!!!REALX

This post was modified by bonk on 2005-11-07 05:58:27

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffskb archives Date: Nov 6, 2005 10:32pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rardog 11-01-05 HOB CLEVELAND

It wasn't an attack on you, it was just a comment on the sitution as a whole. The trading community used to be a community, I'm not sure what to call it now....

peace...cm
(Taping since 1978)

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Poster: bonk Date: Nov 6, 2005 10:48pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rardog 11-01-05 HOB CLEVELAND

much love SKB!!!I appoligize for the comment.I dont know what to do about the sit.what i do know is this site has been a Blessing for all of us!!!!!!!!
Brian

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 7, 2005 12:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rardog 11-01-05 HOB CLEVELAND

it seems like a certain portion of the trading community has now become a direct reflection of 21'st century consumerism - the whole 'I want/need it now.' (although I don't think that was what bonk meant at all by his post). We, as American consumers, have been led by corporate marketing to truly believe that we should and must have everything right when we want them (playstations, xbox, ipods, even children's toys). Unfortunatly, this mentality seems to have infiltrated the music trading community as well. Plus, bands like the Dead, Ratdog, Allmans, etal have unwittingly added to this "gotta have it now" mentality by allowing purchases of shows the very same night. The internet has certainly exacerbated (sp) this tenfold when it comes to free music. (although I must admit, i love it when those Kimock tapers upload their shows within days - kudos and thanks to them).
I have obviously offered no useable insight into this - just felt like typing something other than work (and had too much coffee).

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Poster: 3roin stones Date: Nov 7, 2005 12:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rardog 11-01-05 HOB CLEVELAND

Dire hit the nail on the head. I think we're all a little odsessive (deadheads that is). I know that I've got more Grateful Dead right now than I could listen to in a year's time,but am nevertheless constantly looking for another show.It's just so remarkable to have all of this wonderful music(and I do dload other bands btw)literally at your fingertips that I can't seem to help myself.
Way back in the day it was so difficult to buy music compared to today that it just seems to me to be some kind of miracle to have this goldmine waiting for me everyday.
Thanks to the curators of this site, the tapers and everyone who reviews the shows themselves instead of reviewing how high they were at the time, and all the folks who make recomendations and thoughtful commentaries.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 7, 2005 4:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon and other ISOs

If you do want to add usable insight as long as you are posting: Do you have any opinion on how best to handle types of ISO posts that appear on this forum? Thanks for input!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 4, 2005 4:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon ISOs

Here's an advice link, including about not grovelling:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=39913

BTW there's been a rash of rapid ISO's lately. Shall we develop a consensus about whether it's better to just keep handing out advice, or start deleting more of them, or...? ISOs left to themselves usually attract more.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-04 12:06:08

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Poster: elkdog Date: Nov 4, 2005 12:54pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon ISOs

Is this thread an ISO?
If so, it's looking for a show that can't be posted on the Archive in the first place.
My question would be: since current Ratdog shows are off limits, should they be discussed here? I don't know. Someone just got blasted for seeking out Dead shows that are unavailable, and though some chose harsh words, I thought the post in question was out of line. Same thing?

I'm all for deleting ISO's that occur within, say, three weeks of the show. Make it an even month if you want. Tapers / uploaders provide a free service here, and as someone who benefits tremendously from their investment and effort, I really don't want things to get to a point where these people are taken for granted.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: Nov 4, 2005 10:08pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon ISOs

It was an ISO, the poster edited it after Diana's comments though.

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Poster: elkdog Date: Nov 5, 2005 1:43am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon ISOs

Thanks for clarifying, Brad. I'd vote to delete it, since it's out of line on a couple of counts (3 days after the show, Ratdog's policiy prohibits posting that show, this isn't a trading board).

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: Nov 5, 2005 2:56am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon ISOs

I think the question is, do we just start deleting ISO's every time they show up? Or only the ISO's that are less than a month after the show etc...

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 5, 2005 8:18am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Handling too-soon and other ISOs here

My own vote: I'd be happy with deleting *at least* the ones that are up to 3 or even up to 8 weeks out.

I can go either way on some older ones. Occasionally calls here for older shows bring forth a fileset, but that's not usual.

Deleting the trade-*unfriendlies* in any date range would be a good policy. Right now those are also at the followup-chide level.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-05 16:18:23

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 6, 2005 5:58am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Handling too-soon and other ISOs here

Additional type to consider: ISO's for shows that have been removed from collection (even if not commercially released yet). I'd incline toward deletion. Anyone else?

Ref thread, may go away later depending on consensus:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=46496

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: Nov 4, 2005 5:52am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon ISOs

I vote to start deleting them.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffgreenone Date: Nov 4, 2005 7:33am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon ISOs

Then the question becomes, all ISO's or just too-soon ones?

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Poster: bonk Date: Nov 4, 2005 5:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon ISOs

Thanks!

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Poster: bonk Date: Nov 6, 2005 9:59pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon ISOs

Diana,
I meant no harm.I was just inquiring about the show.Thats all.I really appreciate all that you do for us.
Thanks

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 6, 2005 10:39pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon and other ISOs

Understood, bonk. Although your post meant no harm it was still an exemplar of a forum issue that could use discussion. So then, how do *you* feel about handling various types of incoming ISO's? Opinions welcome- response has been light so far.

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 7, 2005 11:24pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon and other ISOs

i too was guilty of this in the summer . but mine did have to do with a band that is here at lma. i see what you are saying diana about iso's being posted too close to the actual show itself . guess some are just too anxious. but it is a good idea to wait until a month has past before an iso is posted. i think a month is long enough .

of course the show i was looking for still hasnt shown up

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 7, 2005 11:52pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon and other ISOs

mine did have to do with a band that is here at lma

IMO, how to treat ISOs here should be independent of whether the band is otherwise represented here or not. It's the asking itself that is the problem at issue.

the show i was looking for still hasnt shown up

This illustrates that actively going somewhere else (to a band-specific fan site, a site devoted to person-to-person trading, etc) to uncover tapes would be a more successful strategy. Then once you have the tape in hand yourself, contribute it to this collection if that's allowed.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-08 07:52:35

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 8, 2005 5:03am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon and other ISOs

agree with everything you say ! :)

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Poster: B.H. Toque Date: Nov 8, 2005 9:55am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon and other ISOs

How about we delete all iso posts. There is probably a way to preempt them from being posted in the first place. The admins should not have to waste their time on this.

A nice link to the db.etree search page should suffice.

http://db.etree.org/etree_shnlist.php

If a taper makes a recording and never plans to circulate it, than an ISO won't do anything but waste space.

If a taper makes a recording and shares it, it will end up in the database even if you can't get it from here.

Shows I only circulated by b&p to people who asked for a copy at a show have found their way into the db because people add them to their trade lists.

Even a simple google search is capable of finding shows that are not listed in the db or archive. Any trader with a list on the web will come up with a simple 2 minute search.

The forum here should be for nothing but issues pertaining to use of the archive.

Call me crazy, but if you can't take the effort to look, I don't see why anyone should take the effort to spoon feed you a recording.

JAson

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Poster: Fishead Date: Nov 9, 2005 12:47am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon and other ISOs

so what shows have you taped that are here ?

i wanna be spoon fed.... ;0~

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 9, 2005 1:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Too-soon and other ISOs

Spoon feeding:
-Type this into the search box above:
B.H. Toque

-Respect our top uploaders. ;)

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Poster: B.H. Toque Date: Nov 9, 2005 4:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: search function not 100% by uploader

Hey Diana,

I'd never thought to search for my user name before, so I just did. I wanted to see if only shows I had uploaded came up, or if stuff I taped that was upped for me by others would come up too. It seems that the search only checks the uploader field. However the search came up with 109 shows under my name, but I've had 116 completed by the contribution engine. I wonder if this is a glitch that affects all uploader searches? I obviously don't have access to test this with other contributors accounts, but one of the admins might want to check it out.

I'll pm Brad since I know he contributes as well as admins.

JAson

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: Nov 9, 2005 4:52am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: search function not 100% by uploader

Hi Jason,

It seems that the search only checks the uploader field.

Can you clarify this? There are some shows I transferred that come back in the search (like SCI 3/7/2000), so either this isn't right or I am confused in what you mean.

However the search came up with 109 shows under my name, but I've had 116 completed by the contribution engine.

Daunting task I realize - but can you identify 1 or 2 of the 7 missing ones so we can take a look?

-Brad

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 9, 2005 5:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: search function not 100% by uploader

Unfortunately, the search engine results are imperfect/incomplete compared to the normal Browse listings. Ref thread:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=33779
So, the SE is more like a handy approximation, not the ultimate authority.

In the simple search I suggested, it would have pulled up other listings that contained
B.H. Toque
in fields besides the upload field, if there happened to be any of those (like, reviewer?). But I guess you are not listed as B.H. Toque on many/any Taped By fields.

If you searched for
Jason Adler
you would likely get a different/overlapping range of hits.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2005-11-09 13:09:32